Jaap Van der Wal M.D., Ph.D. is a Dutch phenomenological embryologist, teacher, and author who provides a counterweight against the reductionist scientific vision of human existence and the embryonic journey that each of us has taken. Exposing the dogma of anatomy as false, Jaap reshapes our mainstream objectification of self to expose the truth of being human as a lifelong process performed. Liz Koch and Jaap Van der Wal met in the Netherlands informally at the kitchen table to talk about the embryological model for understanding core integrity, the expression of psoas, and the importance of changing our perception of body.